I'm curious, since you two disagree, if StillPompous and bklynkey718 could post their sources for their view of what Americans prefer with respect to national healthcare/ObamaCare.
Certainly no one wants people to die in the streets. If the regulations were removed and competition returned to the insurance industry (where it has become very intangled with the Federal government), rates would go down and healthcare could be affordable again like it was pre-1970s. Of course, a sound monetary policy will help also.
@Barn
You are using a Republican tactic in your argument. The mandate is a SMALL part of the healthcare bill and you're right, most people are against it, but most people are for the part that say insurance companies cannot deny coverage to anyone with preexisting condition, and most people are for affordable healthcare.
@Barn
the mandate is NOT everything. The mandate would only affect a small percentage of people.
Funding the whole bill, and the mandate are two separate issues. The mandate requires people to buy their own insurance, what does that have to do with making insurance companies give people coverage with preexisting conditions?
The mandate is trying to insure that people do not wait until they are sick and then run out and get health coverage and getting expensive procedures and not having paid into it. If medical coverage is affordable, and this bill makes it affordable, then most people would gladly buy their own medical.
If you take away the mandate then an alternative to get people to take advantage of affordable medical will have to be presented, but that still does not mean you throw out the provisions to make sure every American has access to medical coverage.
@Barn
Well if people are stuck on the mandate part then throw it out and come up with something better, but that doesn't mean that the whole thing should be ruled against. And all Americans did NOT have access to health care, especially if they had an existing condition before "Obamacare."
Since you are for everyone having access to affordable healthcare, throw out the mandate and come up with something that replaces it, but keep the other important parts of "Obamacare" such as affordable medical coverage for all and insurance companies having to cover everyone, including if they have a preexisting condition? You and I agree with this, right?
@barnbrat
I prefer this quote
" The only freedom which deserves the name is that of pursuing our own good, in our own way, so long as we do not attempt to deprive others of theirs, or impede their efforts to obtain it."
Those of us who get this quote understand, though imperfect, the necessity of government.
@Barn how do you get your waiver? Surely you're not saying you don't have healthcare?! And here I was under the impression your were well off and able to afford simple necessities. Now, correct me if I'm wrong but I thought this mandate was for the uninsured? The people who drive the cost of healthcare up for everyone by going to the emergency rooms and not paying the bill. Or as Greg said, buy a policy only when they know they need some expensive medical procedures and have not paid sufficiently into the system, and presumably drop their medical coverage as soon as they receive care. Wouldn't you like the cost of healthcare to not continue to increase by ridiculous amounts, because of the millions of people being uninsured, and/or abusing the healthcare system?
@greg
"Well if people are stuck on the mandate part then throw it out and come up with something better, but that doesn't mean that the whole thing should be ruled against."
This is the GOP solution to everything. From healthcare to government to affirmative action. Like removing them removes the needs they address. Rarely ever do they offer a reasonable alternative, but they can tell you all day what's wrong.
Kill the Budda
Let's see if the conservative Supreme Court keeps most of the Health Care Reform bill or if they will strike it all down. The cherry-picked Arizona's illegal immigration laws and said they could keep most but struck down 1 or 2 of the provisions. Let's see if they give President Obama the same courtesy, although I don't even think this should have been in front of the Supreme Court.
Ahh my good friends debating the merits of Obamacare !!! The good old days lol Whats good my friends ;) (barn, storm)...... and yall on the otherside (greg, thefake1,Love)
Im gonna keep it simple for yall as I often do. THIS LAW IS A WRAP !!!!!! The SCOTUS are gonna throw this *** out, bottom line, today, next week, in a month, DONT MATTER THIS ISSUE IS DONE !
OBAMA GAMBLED AND LOST ! Give his @$$ an A for effort tryna ram it down Americans throats.
You nyggas fail to realize how healthcare went up and is still going up for the people who already have healthcare ! We are now gonna have to pay for all you broke @$$ ghetto @$$ democrats ???? *** ! We aint havin that *** ! It's not that I don't care, it's that I dont think that I or the federal govt should pay for that *** !
Now, Greg, cmon man, I hate it when you play stupid cuz yur not ! YOU KNOW GAWDAM WELL IF THEY TAKE THE MANDATE OUT OF THIS LAW, IT IS THE SAME AS KILLING THE LAW, SO STOP ACTING LIKE ITS A SMALL PART !
IT MAY BE PHYSICALLY SMALL IN HOW MANY WORDS LONG IT IS, BUT IT'S A BIG *** DEAL IF THEY STRIP THIS OUT !
Katt
Long time, good to see you here... but killing the mandate doesn't have to kill this bill. True, there will have to be something else that protects the poor and gives them a chance at affordable healthcare, but there are many people that would be helped by the other hundreds of provisions. Some of them are already in affect and could survive just fine with or without a mandate. Why can't you Republicans understand that? Why does it have to be an all or nothing? Why can't you support the good parts of it and negotiate the parts you don't like? Oh, right, because this is something from Obama.
I only yell because all you democrats need *** hearing aids but you can't afford them if the govt ain't payin for them........ ;)
LOL, you forgot who you talkin to huh ??? Remember me ? That non democrat who would run circles around your @$$ until you had nothing left but personal insults ? I left cuz I had a life to live, and now I'm popping in to rub it in your face that your beloved healthcare plan is going in the shredder thanks to the wisdom of the SCOTUS !
You gonna need a trash can full of lube for all the "Obama dykk-riding" you gonna have to do after this ! That @$$ is gonna get a workout lol !
And who the *** is surprised that Eric Holder has been held in contempt ? That nygga been lying thru his @$$ talkin bout he didn't know *** about "Fast & Furious" from day 1 ! See, this *** wouldn't be that big of a deal, but add the fact that you got 2 dead federal agents behind his *** up, and now this *** ain't goin away ! Obama made it even worse by invoking executive privilege. Now the rest of congress is involved, not just the comittee.
Last but not least, Obama needs to prepare his @$$ to get creamed again by the Supreme Court on the Arizona Immigration Law ! He is gonna lose bigtime on that *** too ...........
.......And when these 2 things happen, best believe imma be in here laughin my @$$ off at you nyggas cryin and screechin lol
"Death to the Section 8 Mob" !
Greg, you and I can have a rational conversation my brotha. You make good points. Actually, I dont disagree with the whole bill at all. Of course some of it is good, even a broken clock is right twice a day ? But forcing people to get HC or they get fined is ***, and the SCOTUS is about to tell you the same thing I'm telling you. You may not wanna listen to me on this, but you have no choice but to listen to them. So, yes, I agree with you support the good parts, but Im sure we disgaree of what those are. Example: I like the part about pre-existing conditions per se, but I'm not comfortable forcing insurance companies to insure people with great liabilities to themselves ? As I said often, I dont dislike Obama personally at all and I'm glad I lived long enough to see a black president. But unlike fake1 and you, " It is NOT important to me what race our president is" ??? I don't give a *** if he was green or purple with blue polka dots ! And it's stupid to think otherwise.
@ dafake1
Lol are you serious dude lol I remember every single name I've been called by you so miss me with the pleasantries. I can be civil with you anytime you want ! You goin soft on us ??? lol
And don't act like yur so oblivious to the obvious sides in here. Everybody knows where the line in the sand is, and which side of it they are on. And my "side" may indeed lose this november, but not because of what I say in here.
(coming from so called "black people" I find that insulting ....and so should anyone else thats black........fall back son!!!)
See this is the problem right here. YOU want nyggas to be slaves and pick cotton for the democratic party as opposed to thinking independently for themselves !
Why the *** are we "coons" sellouts, against our own black race if we don't agree with everything that comes out of the mouth of democrats and their half-white president ????
Is it possible to legitimately disagree with democrats and be black ?
I DARE YO @$$ TO ANSWER THESE LAST 2 QUESTIONS ! Long as I have known you, you never ever had the cohones to answer either one..... Matter of fact, I CHALLENGE ANY DEMOCRAT IN HERE TO TRUTRHFULLY ANSWER THESE QUESTIONS WITHOUT INSULTS !
bet yall can't do it to save yur lives !
Hello Katt, I see you're being your usual charming self! I read where you said, "I dont think that I or the federal govt should pay for that *** (healthcare) !" but you already are!!! And it is not just "ghetto *** democrats" who are uninsured, there are people from all walks of life who cannot afford healthcare. The problem will only get worse for EVERYONE, if something is not done. Doesn't that make you, and other republicans mad, that the cost of healthcare for those who can afford it will continue to rise as long as the millions of uninsured people continue to pass off their unpaid medical bills onto you?!
Barn, try going to HealthCare.gov to get some FACTS about the waivers. They were not given out to Obama's "chosen ones" but to employers who provide healthcare for low-wage employees.
Katt
I don't vote for a President because of his race. During the Primaries I actually supported Hillary, but when she lost, no way was I voting for McCain/Palin. Let me put it this way, if Herman Cain became the Republican nominee I would vote for whoever was running against him. It was good to see an African-American man as President and I'm glad that many of the older generation who fought for our rights, and died fighting for them, were able to see that moment happen. But see, what you don't understand is that there's no problem criticizing Obama. Hell, I do it enough. But when you have people calling him and his family names, calling him a socialist for doing the same things that past Republicans did, well we know what it's all about, and it has nothing to do with his job as President.
OK love, let's be civilized for 5 min. I can do that lol
Yes, we already pay for lots of Americans to have HC. Yes, not just ghetto @$$ democrats are the uninsured (but a significant part of them are, way more than reaps ! I would say there are way too many left leaning ghetto @$$ *** of all races that need public assistance)
Yes it was getting worse, but it got worse alot faster when Obamacare got passed ! Everyone I know including me got a rate hike in their HC insurance ! Why ? Because it made us hardworking people pay HC for these broke *** out here !
Now, WTF do we do about it ??? Why dont we debate this rationally and come up with a compromise solution instead of tryna shove it down our throats like Obama and the democrats did !
@dagreat: I'm being polite. I'm supposed to be the baddest poster on this site and even I haven't been banned for several years. What in the world are you doing? Did I miss something? Yes,you are annoying but what exactly do you keep doing that keeps getting axed. Pretty soon, you're going to run out of names.
What? I have been banned twice. Granted it has been several years. I dont work for anyone. The difference between you and me is I don't go psycho and overuse ellipses. You come off as sort of creepy and scary and you disrupt the flow of the room. Why don't you state your arguments in an intelligent manner? Why all the crazines? It's also clear that you are obssessed with me and think every commenter who agrees with me is ME. I bet MTOs security is banning you because you are disrespectful, come off as unstable, and you seem dangerous. (Just my opinion.)
Wow. You're really mad aren't you? I wish I could post some of your old gems but they've been erased....each and every time you're banned greatidiot. First you were dagreat1, banned name #2, banned named #3, banned name #4, then some other name and until today, dagreat1revenge. We don't even know what the heck to call you anymore. THE CRAZY BANNED GUY?
You keep saying no one talks to me when the truth is no one likes you. After all , YOU keep getting banned. Now Ill go back to ignoring your psycho azz and sit back sipping my tea while you get banned yet again. Stupid
@ Greg I'm anxious to hear the supreme court decision too.
@barnbrat
I try to see the humor in things. I got this routine comparing republican politicians to vampires while simultaneously comparing facts to mirrors. You know, cause they both try to avoi....well you get it.
In all seriousness though. I have no doubts that they dont intellectually reject everything in the bill. But when they present their case to the uninformed you speak of, is that how it's presented?
@grt1
That is irony at its best. I remember a few years back seeing this young right leaning chick discussing healthcare and she was asking forum members why they were making a big deal over healthcare discussions. She didn't think the healthcare situation at the time was worth "complaining" about. Long story *** this chick had health insurance through her parents so no wonder it was not a big deal because not only was she covered but she was not even financially responsible for the coverage. Like you just pointed out, I wonder how many people with pitch forks against "socialized medicine" actually face the downside?
Yeh I feel you man. To me looking at this issue from an economical angle primarily Is the wrong approach to begin with. It needs to be a moral priority first, which would then force us to address some of the issues you are talking about.
But too many people have too much to loose so they have to frame the argument from a strictly economical viewpoint. A skewed economic viewpoint at that.
Why the religious right sees every apparent moral ill but this one totally escapes me.
Hey dagreatdummy, In case you didn't notice, back in 2009 there were a lot of people making up names to act like they were me. This is what you keep referring to over and over again. No. Most people have not been banned and certainly not six times. I'll ask again. What are you doing to keep getting banned? Never mind. A crazy man always thinks he's sane. BTW, people get more than one degree. You can get several undergrad degrees, multiple master degrees and doctorates. But of course, you know that don't you Mr. Lawyer. lol. Yeah right *side eye*
